I love these but man they run big! Definitely not an 8.5. I had my friend try them on who wears a 9.5 and they fit her in socks. I love these shoes and was very disappointed I don’t want them to go to someone only to have them discover they don’t fit which is why I’m listing them as 9.5 instead of the manufacturer size. Docs are notoriously wonky in their sizing I have a pair of size 8 boots that fit great. The color is an off white. Message me with any questions